Half banana

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Posts by Half banana

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  45

  Rejecting something due to unscriptural or pagan origins.....?

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so witnesses reject many practices or holidays due to their "unscriptural or pagan" origins.. for example, birthday celebrations, mothers or father's day, christmas etc..... most people in the world will say "but the origin doesn't matter anymore, we follow this custom now because it's a joyful occasion that creates happy times and brings the family together".

  it is still firmly rejected.. so, if the wrong origin is so important, and should result in rejecting something, why isn't the same principle applied to the actual jehovah's witness faith itself!?.

  after all, the very foundation of the organisation was based on wrong understandings of the bible, far fetched teachings and doctrines, links to false religious backgrounds, pyramidology, false predictions, inaccurate beliefs etc...... using their reasoning, it doesn't matter how good something is now, if the origin was faulty to begin with?

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  Half banana

  Almost the entirety of Bible is pagan in origin.

  It was the Roman church in the fifth century which methodically destroyed all the links to its origins to cover its pagan traces which had led up to the unification of all significant prevailing religious beliefs. This is after all what "catholic" means; "all embracing," they never concealed the fact of absorbing the older faiths. What they did however was to distance the newly sanctified Roman Catholic church from the rustic folk stories which had given rise to Christianity in the first place. the Romans maintained control over the plebs by display and status. Paganism of course being rural, equaled low status.

  This synchretising or fusing of belief gave the Roman State the political control over all the former pagan temple following and various christ sects, and brought them under the wing of state sponsored religion. For the prestige of the newly fused Catholic church and its own selection of texts which formed the Bible, the state endowed it with wealth and grand architecture to identify it as divinely ordained. They continued using all the old pagan offices such as Pontiff (from Pontifex Maximus the great bridge maker. The pontiff was, and still is also called Papa from the Mithraic pope, Pater patris meaning Father's father.) Yet to suggest the state worship had anything to do with the peasants beliefs simply was not on. It was a state managed denial of paganism.

  Just goes to show what money and propaganda can do...
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  26

  How credible are NWT's critiques?: Allin and John 8:58. (2)

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  how credible are nwt's critiques?

  : allin and john 8:58.a few weeks ago we had a discussion surrounding john 8.58. the posters in this forum offered various views in regards to jesus' divine role in scripture.

  occasionally, some scholars publish articles where they voice their opinion against the nwt theological renderings.

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  Half banana

  Wonderment, the length of your article demonstrates just how fruitless it is to attempt to find any coherent conclusive message in the Bible.

  Many if not most of the characters mentioned in the Bible are not real but ancient folk-story or mythical characters put into Hebrew dress. How can one argue about the words of mythical people? There is no evidence for the existence of Moses. He is an elaboration and amalgam of an earlier Egyptian story line.

  The Bible is not the work of an invisible deity... it is entirely the work of scribes or amanuenses working for the ruling elite of their time. Truth was never the purpose of writing...holding on to power is the force behind the selection of all of the Bible texts.

  To find an incontrovertible and coherent pattern in the scriptures is as futile as catching the wind.
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  70

  When is a theory 'just a theory'?

  by HB in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the titles of cofty's excellent recent posts are all preceeded by the words "evolution is a fact...".

  richard dawkins is encouraging people to use the term 'fact' in relation to evolution, especially when debating with creationists as the word 'theory' is confusing to many, and the latter often takes the discussion off on an often unproductive tangent.

  the following may be of interest, it's from the bbc website - part of a regular series of articles called 'the vocabularist', discussing the origin and meaning of words: .

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  Half banana

  Good point made Anders.

  
  

  Fisherman, you are a paradigm; an example of what JW belief and faith in God does to the brain. You have got the cart before the horse.

  The Bible is a book of propaganda; it is full of ridiculous mistakes and errors and was only made ‘sacred’ by the Roman Catholic Church. To base your life on this shows that you cannot think for yourself, you only follow other people.

  People who are afraid to think for themselves often end up in high control cults like JWs.

  There is no scientific or measurable evidence, for a sprit deity to whom we are all beholden. The Bible is a collection of fictional tales (which happens also to mention some real things).

  What book of factual events ever recorded talking animals and people coming back from the dead?

  The WTBTS is a money-collecting and dishonest cult which is not in the slightest degree concerned for the welfare of its flock. It trades in the gullibility of people who trust in God and blind faith. What a confidence trick!

  The horse which drives the cart of human progress is verifiable knowledge.

  (If you were you to cast off your comfort blanket of faith, you could then correct me and say that the real horse is actually “disprovable” knowledge... but such subtleties are not accessible to believer’s minds).
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  105

  Does anyone think Jehovah is protecting the org. despite all the talk about THE ARC ?

  by tor1500 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been thinking this for a while.

  even before the arc scandal.

  it seems no matter what, the org.

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  Half banana

  Beyond Freddo's point - I do not believe there would be the slightest difference if you substituted the name Mickey Mouse with the name Jehovah.

  Tell me how you could possibly know the difference?
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  29

  List of reasons why the witnesses are wrong.

  by atomant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  l thought it might be a good idea to have a quick reference post to remind people of the faults within the jw org.what do others think.

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  Half banana

  They make their members feel good for cultivating unjustified faith in the untrustworthy Catholic Bible.

  They make their members feel good for cultivating faith in faith.

  They make their members feel good for believing that God has chosen the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses as his exclusive channel...when they have no evidence to show that they are his channel.

  In fact because of the repeated failure of their Bible-based predictions, it must be evident to all that God if he were to exist, is not interested in the WTBTS .
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  41

  If all the world were JWs....

  by Tornintwo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in my former indoctrinated state, i used to yearn for a time when all the world would be jws.

  but hang on minute, let's just think about what the world would be like if everyone was a jw,.

  first of all, no higher education, so no medical advances, no scientific research, no modern day medicine, infectious disease rife, no doctors, no engineers, so no modern day comforts.

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  Half banana

  Good thought Island man. If all the world were JWs, and thank goodness it can never happen, the leaders would become empowered to rule with unchecked tyranny in a stale and regressive dystopia.

  The personal beliefs and whims of the GB would be the universal rule which would not countenance private thought and natural human activities and impulses. Suicide would become the main way of escaping this false paradise.

  Fortunately the JW org will not withstand the scrutiny offered by modern internet technology and they will never succeed in the new scientifically connected world to promote their abusive and misguided "Bible-based" ignorance.

  The Roman Church tried such a paradise back in the Dark Ages.... which is where this idea belongs.
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  25

  Is a piano inevitable?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  i was at a concert last night and the presence and stature of the piano struck me.

  and i thought: if the piano wasn't invented when it was, would it have been invented by someone else instead?

  or if there was a world the same as our, except with a different history, would it have pianos now too or would it be modern world, similar in many respects, only without pianos?

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  Half banana

  I agree with you Terry, I would add that “inevitability” is an uncompromising absolute. The creation of the piano is an expediency as mentioned, to better fit the needs of composers and to improve beyond the limitations of note sustainability and modulation of sound over the mechanically plucked strings of earlier keyboard instruments.

  Are humans inevitable? (which question may have prompted your asking about pianos?) No! Nevertheless a bipedal mammal with the ability to nurture their young for a long time might use culturally communicated intelligence to survive the predations of hungry large cats. Gorilla sapiens possibly or Pan sapiens, et al.

  The species of piano similarly has been the result of a selection process but chosen by ‘ear’ and not by ‘natural selection.’

  Incidentally, since the name ‘piano’ is an abbreviation of ‘piano forte’ meaning ‘soft-loud’ in Italian; have you ever thought what actually is the instrument in question...a soft/loud what?
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  68

  Why would anyone choose to support Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  by Half banana in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is the point of supporting a belief which began as a bronze age ox-headed idol called yahweh... in a religion designed for illiterate peasants now appropriated by a money-driven cult with a one hundred and forty six year unbroken record of total failure of its bible based predictions?.

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  Half banana

  What is the point of supporting a belief which began as a Bronze Age ox-headed idol called Yahweh... in a religion designed for illiterate peasants now appropriated by a money-driven cult with a one hundred and forty six year unbroken record of total failure of its bible based predictions?
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  46

  The slow trickle has become a steady stream!

  by freddo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the last few weeks it seems that instead of one or two new posters a week we seem to be getting several every day.

  many seem to be long time jw's who are troubled by the path of the organisation.

  this is really encouraging to those of us who have been here sometime.. welcome!

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  Half banana

  As Aude Sapere says the attendance relates to the downsized congregations consolidated into fewer Kingdom Hells.

  The stream increasing from a trickle refers to new people posting on this site, which is not necessarily a decline in JW numbers. Even if they were still leaving at the same rate as before; there are fewer baptized and even much fewer still joining from the outside to replace those departing.

  I wonder however that in among the increase here, there might be one or two posting to test the resilience and effectiveness of this site. JWHQ would be interested in what we say to counter their propaganda so as to configure a response.

  I'm thinking of posters like InsidetheKH for example.
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  14

  Evolution is a Fact #16 - Aquatic Mammals

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  having spent at least 20 million years acquiring the machinery to survive on dry land and hundreds of millions more diversifying and exploiting every conceivable niche, a number of landlubbers made their way back to the sea.. among these were pond snails, water spiders, water beetles, crocodiles, otters, sea snakes, water shrews, galapagos flightless cormorants, marine iguanas, penguins and turtles.

  of course the most impressive example of all are the whales and their little cousins the dolphins.

  these have gone all the way back to an aquatic existence as have dugongs and their close cousins the manatees jointly known as the sirenians, they don’t even come ashore to breed.

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  Half banana

  Sowhatnow, in the absence of maestro Cofty, may I say that polar bears and humans are new kids on the block geologically speaking.

  We have evidence for Homo sapiens around 100,000 years before present (bp). We have indications for H sapiens existing fifty thousand years before that and therefore it would be assumed in the nature of things that Humans arrived on the scene perhaps more than 200,000 years bp.

  The real expansion took place around 40,000 bp when recognizably human cultural artifacts become abundant, things such as spear throwers, bows and arrows, bull roarers, boomerangs, complex stone tools and sewing. This was the start of cave paintings in the Dordogne in France. These people are called Cro Magnon ('Big hole' in translation from the first find location) yet these humans although looking just like us actually had skulls thicker than ours and yet only forty thousand years ago.